| Dates | + +# Posts | + +Subject | +
|---|---|---|
| Nov 01 - Nov 03 | + +21 | + +About introducing + newbies to FreeBSD | +
| Nov 03 - Nov 04 | + +8 | + +Any artists interested + in doing a FreeBSD animated GIF banner? | +
| Nov 02 - Nov 05 | + +10 | + +CounterStrike | +
| Nov 03 - Nov 05 | + +10 | + +Installation: what to + (not) do about it | +
Quoting a lengthy post to freebsd-questions regarding the usability + of /stand/sysintall for newbies, [Micke + Josefsson] asked for comments and suggestions from the list about + a new user interface for a regular install.
+ +Some notable thoughts were:
+ +++ +I think there should be some info available in sysinstall + (or whatever replaces it) explaining what is happening in each + step, and the relevant terms...The terms I speak of here are the + FreeBSDish terms (as opposed to generic UNIX terms like users + & groups) that every rookie asks about - slice? distribution? + port? package? The context of each step is not + explained. - [Steve + Tremblett]
+
++ +Since most of our new users come to us from either Windows + or Linux, we need an installation program that is a lot more like + the ones that they've used in the past. I've often wondered how + many users we lose while they are trying to load the OS. What I + would really like to see is a FreeBSD installer on par with the + UnixWare 7 or Tru64 5.0 installers (a clone of SCO Admin would be + nice too!). Failing that, we probably need something that looks + more like a Linux installer, or a really good rosetta stone. + - [Bob Martin]
+
++ +To get back on track, one of sysinstalls failings, while not + being a technical point, is it's image. Everytime I talk to some + llama who's installing linux, he goes "OOOOOOhhhhh look at all the + pretty colors, mmmmmmmmmmm graphical install...does FreeBSD have + that???" Of course me being the civilized being that I am, instead + of smacking them upside the head then and there, I wait till they + are finished installing, and laugh my arse off linuxconf shits + itself for the 20th time...So in conclusion, in order to make + FreeBSD's initial installation easier for the + novice/unix beginner/grandma, yes, sysinstall does need an + overhaul. - [Haikal + Saadh]
+
++ +What is absolutely maddening is the way the installer accepts + input from the users. Sometimes you press (or are supposed to + press) <RETURN> and some other times you are supposed to + press <SPACE>. But the worst part is when you just finished + installing the OS and you find yourself back in a menu telling you + to do some final adjustments. If you decide to do these final + adjustments, the f*****ng installer installs the OS again! + Itīs outrageous! - [Ignacio + Cristerna]
+
Obviously, we all agree – we need some sort of new and/or + seperate "first boot install" for newbies coming to us from Windows, + Linux, etc... and according to [Jordan Hubbard], this + discussion has been going on for a long, long, long time...
+ +++ + + +I'm not just being snide here, we really have had this very + same discussion (and in almost the same words) on and off for the + last 7 years now. It's hardly rocket science to envision an + installer which has one big button on it which even your + grandmother could push, the question always boiling down to "Who + the heck is going to write this thing then?""
+ +That's generally where the discussion stops. Every man and + his dog can describe an installer which follows in the footsteps + of Windows, Solaris or even OS X now that we have its installer to + look at since imitation is a pretty straight-forward design + challenge. As I first said back in 1993, "who will step up to the + plate and create this alternative installer so that we can evaluate + its merits and possibly even make it the default?" I'm still + waiting for an answer to that question, 7 years later. :-)"
+
[Jordan Hubbard] is + asking for graphically talented geeks out there to work up a banner + ad for rotation on various sites including DæmonNews. Image size + should be 468x60 pixels, and no larger than 20k. This is to promote + the FreeBSD project, so open up the Gimp or whatever your fancy is, + and email Jordan with what you come up with. Remember, you're not + going to get paid for this, the warm fuzzy feeling you get for + working on the FreeBSD project is enough :-)
+ + + +This thread started out with [Marius Bendiksen] urging us to + push for a CounterStrike (a HalfLife mod) server port. The first step + would be to start out with a port skeleton for the dedicated Linux + server, then the push would begin with Sierra Games for a full + port. [Daryl Chance] + replied with a 'make search key=halflife', stating that the server + was indeed already ported. Marius still thinks the game should be + ported itself though...
+ +A sub-discussion about using Open Sound System vs. FreeBSD's built-in + sound support for popular games ensued, and [Terry + Lambert] tells us:
+ +++ +Most games require a specific sound card API. This API is + supported natively in Linux, but FreeBSD does not support this + API. To use this API, you must have third party (OSS) sound card + drivers, or modify FreeBSD's API. When you suggest this to the + sound driver people, they tend to get belligerant and talk about + how their API is better than the Linux API."
+ +The OSS drivers are not free, they cost money, but you can use + them in evaluation mode for 30 days at a pop, so if you want to + play a game and not pay for the drivers, you have to reinstall them + every 30 days (I personnaly call this "paying for the drivers in + the most expensive way possible").
+
To which [Dag-Erling Smorgrav] replied:
+ +++ +Bollocks. It implements the OSS API, or at least tries to. + If something doesn't work, submit a PR or, even better, patches, + instead of just bitching and spreading disinformation.
+
[Jordan] and [Jim] assure us that both Loki + games in the ports tree play audio just fine with the stock audio + driver, requiring no changes to the game or your system.
+ + + +Here we have Terry Lambert and Jordan Hubbard discussing the previous + thread about the FreeBSD Installation software. We'll skip the lengthy + discussion between these two, but basically, the conversation boils down + to this:
+ +++ +I am merely pointing out that it has been much longer than a + year without a new installer, and had their terms been agreed to + a year ago, FreeBSD would have its installer source code today, and + under the terms you are insisting upon, up front.
+ +So now it's your turn to "put up or shut up"; I _can't_ expend + the effort on these things without a guarantee that that effort will + not be wasted, like it was last time I spent the effort on these + and similar projects on behalf of FreeBSD. I _can't_ afford to" + - [Terry Lambert]
+
++ +And this is speculation masquerading as fact. You have no + sure way of knowing that this would, in fact, have occurred or + that "two FreeBSDs" would have even been widely accepted by the + project contributors or the user community. I see it as far more + likely that your mysterious commercial benefactors would have been + deluged with demands that they open source their product + immediately so that people could customize it and this might in + turn have led to a siege mentality on their part and very poor + results. You simply have no way of knowing for sure what you claim + as fact above.
+ +Like I've told you many times, Terry, nobody gets a "guarantee" + of anything in this project since it's not a kitchen appliance + dealership which hands out limited customer guarantees along with + every frigidair they sell. What you get is the chance to deal with + a large group of people and try, through dint of effort and + perserverance, to sell them on your ideas and (more importantly) + your working code. Even if I wanted to change this as part of + "putting up or shutting up" for you I could not since it's not in + my power to beam hypno-rays directly into the brains of several + hundred people and get them all to agree up front to buy a used + car from you. That's something that you, and only you, can do. + Same deal *everyone* else gets. In short, this is life, deal with + it. - [Jordan + Hubbard]
+
This conspectus expresses my understanding of what occurred on the + FreeBSD-advocacy mailing list during the specified week.
+ +Hey, I'm human... I may have made an error or two... If you think + this is the case, and/or that I have omitted some significant thread + or part of a thread, feel free to contact me via email.
+ + + +